Ability Forum

Shivani

A Momentous Day for all of Us

20 nations have ratified the UNCRPD

Congratulations to all!!!!!

Regards,

Shivani

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Kr_iyer · Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:35 pm Post subject:

Hi Shivani,

I am not sure what will benfit us by UN covention of Rights of the disabled. By the way, what happened to the amendments of pwd . These rules very uneefective for us. Unless we have another Gandhi to save us from the harrassment. I dont believe that UN is gong deploy a force to implement it or bother about the actual upliftment of the PH. It is going to be bonus UN funds for the NGOs to enjoy and spend. for the real PH, it is going to be a routine day, who cares

GOD SAVE THE DISABLED

_________________
If they answer not to thy call walk alone,
If they are afraid and cower mutely facing the wall,
O thou unlucky one,
open thy mind and speak out alone.
RABINDRANATH TAGORE

Shivani · Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:55 pm Post subject:

Dear Mr Iyer,
I actually never thought of it that way.

It is going to be bonus UN funds for the NGOs to enjoy and spend"

I agree with you to a certain level, but definately feel that things should improve for the better with the convention. The pwd Act will now have to imbibe the spirit of the convention while ammendmending. I am sure this will happen quite fast now.

The most important thing that the convention according to me gives us is a VOICE with legal backing to be able to fight against discrimination we are facing. The pwd Act till now did not give us any rights...all was based on the economic capacity of the State, moreover was applicable only to the government and the public sector.
Another way of looking at it can be that inspite of such a weak Act there have definatly been some inprovement in the status of pwd, but now with an Act based on the convention we can all hope for greater positive changes in our status.

Regards,
Shivani

Kr_iyer · Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:38 pm Post subject:

Hi Shivani,

I know the indignation honest NGOs feel. Recently one of our member contacted me for help for a young child suffering and a disabled and I went.only to be thought as another kidney stealers. In fact if the NGO has helped, he was ready provide treatment under UN and the US. The unfotunate thing is neither my pleading with the other NGOs very disappointing. They Frankly asked me whether I will help their son in going to US. But it is a true fact . The Funniest scene is they are listed web addresses are not at all there or they are asking for donations.

Okay, may be my experience is unique. But coming to the ratification. the countries are

Bangladesh - 30 November 2007
Croatia - 15 August 2007
Cuba - 6 September 2007
Ecuador - 3 April 2008
El Salvador - 14 December 2007
Gabon - 1 October 2007
Guinea - 8 February 2008
Hungary - 20 July 2007
India - 1 October 2007
Jamaica - 30 March 2007
Jordan - 31 March 2008
Mexico - 17 December 2007
Namibia - 4 December 2007
Nicaragua - 7 December 2007
Panama - 7 August 2007
Peru - 30 January 2008
San Marino - 22 February 2008
South Africa - 30 November 2007
Spain - 3 December 2007
Tunisia - 2 April 2008

But where is US, UK,Australia,Russia,Germany, France,Israel, canada,Italy and so many countries.It is shame to have the convention at new york, rather UN should change the headquarters. It is not going to work, the Pvt SZector is already wary of the SC/ST employment, Dont tell me public sector, I am not even recognised as Disabled, so much for the public sector.

Any how , Good Luck,

Sorry If I have hurt your feeling

_________________
If they answer not to thy call walk alone,
If they are afraid and cower mutely facing the wall,
O thou unlucky one,
open thy mind and speak out alone.
RABINDRANATH TAGORE

Shivani · Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:51 pm Post subject:

Just to let you know that UK has already signed the convention (& is expected ratify the same this year). Also countries like the UK, USA, Australia do not have any reservations for the disabled rather they talk about equal rights.

Regards,
Shivani

Kr_iyer · Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:57 pm Post subject:

With no comments

(UN Press Release, listing also countries' votes pro and against the convention)

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2006/soc4716.doc.htm

_________________
If they answer not to thy call walk alone,
If they are afraid and cower mutely facing the wall,
O thou unlucky one,
open thy mind and speak out alone.
RABINDRANATH TAGORE

Dsamant · Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:07 pm Post subject:

Hello,

Just adding to this conversation. The US actually has a history of not signing UN conventions/treaties. Also the current Bush administration is quite hostile to the UN as it is. Advocates in the US are really beginning to organize major actions in pushing for US ratification, but its not going to happen at least until a new Administration gets in.

Having said that, it is actually true that the US does currently lead in the kinds of rights and safeguards they have given individuals with disabilities. While they are also not perfect and have led to 100% improvement, they have come a very long way.

Ratifying the UN Convention literally means that you have to change every law to abide by the Convention, not just disability-specific laws such as the PWDA. Hence many countries (e.g. Scandinavian, European) are taking their time to comb through every legislation to see what needs to be changed before they ratify. So that is probably not going to happen right away either...but that also means that once they ratify they will be ready to actually implement the changes!

Anyways the key for us really is not to worry about whether these countries have signed or not but to worry about what our government is going to do.

The fact that the Treaty is now come into force means that they will set up a monitoring body. There is some hope among international advocates that this body will have some teeth to pull countries up for not abiding.

Your disenchantment with the possibilities of improvement is very understandable given our record, but I do believe in what Shivani said that this gives us an opportunity to start demanding for necessary changes.

The PWD Act is up for amendment...but currently finalized amendments do not adequately reflect the Convention. It is very important for us to demand that the Ministry modify the amendments according to the Convention.

I think we should start thinking about how we can advocate for changes even at the State level.

Deepti

Dsamant · Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:05 pm Post subject: Votes in favour and against

Dear Mr. Iyer,

Thank you for the link you sent, it was good to read. Just a note to point out that the votes for and against given on that page weren't regarding the Convention per se, but just for the rights of persons with disabilities during a foreign occupation. Unfortunately you can connect the list of dissenting countries with current events :-(

Best
Deepti

Kr_iyer · Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:58 am Post subject:

Hi Deepti,

You have got a nice set of degrees. But I don't know why you have opted for career in disability. May be we can see you in UN. Good Luck.

Have you seen the past resolution in UN? What is the effect of it? 1.Resolution of World Programme of Action concerning Disabled Persons A/RES/37/52 ( http://www.un.org/documents/ga/res/37/a37r052.htm ) 2. Resolution on the United Nations Decade of Disabled Persons - United Nations A/RES/39/26( http://wallis.kezenfogva.iif.hu/eu_konyvtar/Projektek/Vocational_Rehabilitiation/instr/un_024.htm#Top ). But what happened to the disabled. Only the no. of disabled has increased due to war, violence etc. and stupidly due to ignorance. At least they can educate the people about prevention, which is not even started. Atleast you can see the ads about aids and the child control. I dont remember about any prevention. Well, Polio eradication has statrted, I must admit.

Sorry I can't agree with the role of UN and ngos.Instead of spending on NGOs they could have directly paid some stipend to poor disabled. Atleast they should form a rule that the NGOs are controlled by disabled only . What is the use of PWD, it is not even implemented in Government and PSUs.

Every Dsabled requires

1.Education
2.Job or decent plan for self employment
3.Medical Insurance.
4.Disabled association all indiawise.
5.Id Card for disabled instead of asking to apply for various scheme (like PAN card or Passport I am fed up with searching for ways to create a proof of residence, the moment I shift my location( only the PAN card does not list the residence and universally accepted))
6.A group of MPs nominated from the disabled(voters should be disabled)
7. A decent Income tax Concession
8. Mode of travel whether it is train/ bus/Air should be in decent concession

If these are implemented halfway, I will be happy. Well, I got a decent job before I got the stroke. I am not expecting for any benefit. I will be happy if they are implemented

Bye

_________________
If they answer not to thy call walk alone,
If they are afraid and cower mutely facing the wall,
O thou unlucky one,
open thy mind and speak out alone.
RABINDRANATH TAGORE

Dsamant · Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:38 am Post subject:

Dear Mr. Iyer,

I hope you believe me when I say that I agree with almost everything you say about the lack of amenities, resources, and services available despite grand treaties, laws, and policies. And it isn't restricted to persons with disabilities. I don't think anyone disputes the obvious anger you feel about the situation. If passed, laws are not implemented or followed.

We need good welfare schemes as well as concrete resources to assist people in finding, maintaining, and returning to employment. This is why quotas also fail many times to improve the situation because they come with absolutely no support or accommodations.

When I say a country or the UN or the World Bank does X, Y, or Z it doesn't necessarily mean I support it. And unfortunately big international organizations work only through governments or NGOs, which has its advantages and disadvantages. There is a problem when the governing bodies do not use the funds they are given effectively (or the funds go into someone's pockets). But I am sure that you will agree that there are NGOs and organizations that are really committed to making improvements.

You probably think I am rambling...and I guess to some extent I am :-) I don't have a solution, but at the same time the issues you raise have to be taken into account.

I don't believe that just because India ratified the Convention things are going to change overnight or in the immediate short-term. We have enough and more examples (just as you gave) for that. Also, actual changes are going to require revision at almost every level in our system and in our system's thinking. I don't know when that will happen...

But there are many people internationally, and especially from countries with abysmal conditions like ours, who are truly happy about the Convention. They know that it is a very steep climb. But they are feeling more hopeful than they have been in the past.

Sir, you raise important arguments, do you also have some suggestions as to how we can achieve some of these things? I am happy to help in what way I can. Can we make this an election year issue? Can we approach State governments instead of the Central government?

As for the comment on my degrees and the UN, I have to laugh...if the UN is ineffective, that shouldn't be the place I work at, right?

Keep the conversation flowing! :-)

Best
Deepti

Kr_iyer · Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:40 pm Post subject:

Hi Deepti,

The Disabled and SC/ST s are covered under Government acts. But in case of disabled Act does not act whereas for the downtrodden brothers have got B.R.Ambedkar. M.K.Gandhi . They planned well

1. They have the acts amended and Ensure that p[roper lobbying through elected MPs
2. They have all india association
3. They have persons monitoring the implemention
4. They do not allow the others to take the monies by NGOs. NGO are again represented by SC/STs
5. They have the mass power

Well, We do not have the basic Association, I have myself not joined any association or any NGOs.I Do not frankly trust them. We hear their implementation, in paper with the collector grinning, and referring to PWD( most of the collectors think PWD means Public Works Deptt). Well I do not qualify the Economically Poor disabled (It is not qualification for SC/STs).

Well we are far from starting mass movement or forming the association, and start lobying."disabled" is not a election issue. Forget it. It is employment, the agriculture, infrastructure are. In fact we got Computers,Web,telephones,cell phones, Mcdonalds, Guicci etc accesible to everybody. Question of Barrier Access is against Principal and interest[ /B] of any politician.

Will you join me in the lobbying for a single association fornming for disabled people?

I throw the hat in ring (my god it is the last hat)

Wel idont mind joining UN. The salary is fatter than me

_________________
If they answer not to thy call walk alone,
If they are afraid and cower mutely facing the wall,
O thou unlucky one,
open thy mind and speak out alone.
RABINDRANATH TAGORE

Dsamant · Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:28 am Post subject:

Dear Mr.Iyer,

Creating an umbrella organization at the national level is a very good idea. It does help to have a large common voice advocating our demands. It would be nice to throw this question open to everyone else. Does anyone have some ideas to forming such a national body, if it was tried before, and hasn't happened for any particular reason?

kodakkal

Hello Iyer,

Forming an International platform for disabled persons movement is an good idea, but we have to dare to fight against bureacratics in every time, please ask our soul whether we can fight with that great enemy that was part and parcel of this society since a long time i.e. for past decades ago. About in political leaders like MP and MLA, I am sure I agree for this, but when they elected is we confidence that they are with favour to us ? Please note that Once upon a time Mr.Javed Abidi, Executive Director, NCPEDP,New Delhi have contested for an MP/MLA seat at Delhi constituency, but he has lost the deposit and most of the disabled welfare NGOs are there and most of educated disabled peoples are working there, I am not sure why Mr.Javed Abidi defeated from election for Loksabha or Member of Parliment ?

I trust with you if you are forming an international organisation for disabled people to fight against their disappointments by all corners of society and it's aspects.

with kind regards,

Kr_iyer · Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:12 am Post subject:

Hi Deepti and Kodakkal Saheb,

You may be aware of the recent education reservation  for OBC. It is not surprising to anybody, The politicians are fully praising and  supporting it as their major success, It is not.It is the sucess of the OBC themselves. Where are we without the joint action commitee and stupid NGOs depending on the Government funding only to take care of our needs. I am an Union activist(Communist) from the college days and I had contined as Secretary of the Executives Assocition. Till now I am a communist. But I heard never heard of PWD Act and any sympathy from any of the politician.

Unless we have enforced the reservation in education, jobs,and ensure the passing of the PWD act as per the UN, and ENSURE THE IMPLEMENTATION. We are only one among the many. just dreaming . I remeber the MPs reserved for SC/ST and graduates. We have to demand MPs reserved for Disabled( only the disabled will qualify, and not any other dummies.

Hey, I don't cry as disabled as I am decently well off and enjoyed my life. I don't get any benefits for demanding this. It is for the community. If it gets better I am happy.  Purposefully I have not joined any NGOs/association for the disabled, because I feel like an idiot promising the poor disabled when I can't do anything.

We have a long way to go (Miles before I Sleep- Robert Frost). We have to create an awareness, we have to ask the NGOs to show an funds spent on disabled., We have to replace the useless people  spending our money. We have take care of all NGOS and then we have to talk  about International Association. Tell me a single disabled who had attended UN conference for india, then I will show you the GOD.

If I talk badly NGOs ,the results of NGO themselves speak,The rest is upto you the disabled brother

_________________
If they answer not to thy call walk alone,
If they are afraid and cower mutely facing the wall,
O thou unlucky one,
open thy mind and speak out alone.
RABINDRANATH TAGORE